The Left Blogospheres Gay-Outing McCarthyism

Here are the winners of last blog-sabbaths caption contest. Winners were chosen arbitrarily by my lawyer, Rusty Shackleford.
Buckley F. Williams: In a misguided attempt to dispel rumors that he is a homosexual, Republican National Committee chair Ken Mehlman takes time to pose for the new JC Penney catalog.
Wavemaker: "....and when I saw in the locker room that Rogers and Aravosis were this big, I said to them, 'no wonder you're gay!'.."
Jack M. Redcorn: "And after I saw that Jeff Gannon was this big (cut!), I made damn sure he got his press credentials..."
Runner up goes to me, for the obvious Mr. Garrison comparison....
"When a reporter notices that the word 'penis' occurs 6,083 times in his new novel, Ken Mehlman replies, 'Well, women want to read about ding-dongs! D'you thnk women care about the details of female anatomy?! Hel-lo! Women wanna read about big, poweful schlongs!'
Of course, this caption contest was inspired by the leftosphere's gay McCarthyism.
Gay-witch hunting that still seems to take up so much time for the left-blogosphere--and trust me it's going to get much worse before it gets better.
Recently, the good folks who brought you the Jeff Gannon / James Guckert outing have set their eyes on higher office. In a forthcoming edition of GQ magazine it will be revealed that Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee Chairman, is their next target.
Evidence that Mehlman is gay? Well ,he's not married. He seems to be pretty clean. And no one has seen him on a date recently.
Sounds like a lot of guys I know. Most of the time I just call them loser.
Anyway, Mehlman has denied that he's gay. I'm sure this won't satisfy the leftosphere. They won't be satisfied until they out a prominent Republican. And if there are pictures--hot man-on-man action pictures--all the better.
Cause you know, all that feminists really want to see are pictures of penises. Hot flopping penises. A Redwood forest of penises......
Where was I?
Oh, yeah. Is Ken Mehlman gay?
Shouldn't the obvious answer be who cares?
There is an orthodoxy on the left that gays must be Democrats. That Republicans hate gays. That to be gay means automatic support for gay marriage.
The worst part about this orthodoxy is that gays who don't toe the party line are considered worse than enemies.
They are considered traitors.
And traitors, as you know, must be rooted out. Exposed.
It's a kind of McCarthyism. Only McCarthy was at least trying to root out real traitors--people who he believed were giving away America's nuclear secrets.
McCarthy, however wrongly he pursued those goals, at least had worthy goals. He was trying to save America from a very real threat.
Can the gay-outing McCarthys of the left say the same thing? Is the goal of gay-marriage so fundamentally important that destroying the lives and reputations of people is worth it?
In my mind the gay-outing left better take a good long look in the mirror and ask if such destruction is really worth it in the long run.
History has past judgement on McCarthy, and so too will it pass judgement on those who employ his tactics in much less important a cause.
Confederate Yankee has some more thoughts.
Update: Is McCarthy on everyone's mind, or what?
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1
Is McCarthy on everyone's mind, or what?
What worries me is that earlier it was Stephen Hawking, and that somehow trasferred into McCarthy. I'm not quite sure what to do with that.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at March 22, 2005 05:19 PM (C5gjM)
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Will starving gay invalids have their Perrier water-tubes removed?
The McCarthy-Monster is a creature of their own Leftbat fabrication as and hysteria much as anything. Senator Joe was actually short of the mark counting the numb er oif actual Commuinists who'd infiltrated the Government. It was the the *House* (not Senate) Un-American Activities committee who bothered a few over-wrought Hollwood screenwriters. And nobody died when they lied about Uncle Joe - except for people in The Sovietlandia Workers' Potemkin-Paradise, but Uncle Joe'd been killing them for years and nobody squacked about it in Hollywood.
Posted by: -keith in mtn. view at March 22, 2005 05:51 PM (sE9R7)
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Ken Mehlman started this when he used the gay community as an electoral pinata.
Ed Schrock talked about the sanctity of marriage while he was cruising for man on man action in VA.
If the Repugs wanted a war with the gay community, they got one.
Posted by: Scott at March 22, 2005 08:08 PM (M7kiy)
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Since when has defending 5,000 years of Judao-Christian tradition been some sort of new thing or opening salvo?
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at March 22, 2005 08:45 PM (JQjhA)
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"If the Repugs wanted a war with the gay community, they got one."
Couple of questions here:
If being gay is ok, then why do Dems call Republicans gay as a slur time and time again?
What war with the gay community? Do they even have an army?
Posted by: Buckley F. Williams at March 22, 2005 08:55 PM (O2fD/)
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McCarthy, however wrongly he pursued those goals, at least had worthy goals.
And just how SHOULD he have gone about it?
I gotta go with Keith on this one.
Posted by: Brian B at March 23, 2005 03:56 PM (CouWh)
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"It's a kind of McCarthyism. Only McCarthy was at least trying to root out real traitors--people who he believed were giving away America's nuclear secrets."
No, McCarthy used the combination of inuendo and a brief case to promote himself - quite successfully - by implying that anyone who had left-leaning political tendencies was a communist. Not everyone that McCarthy attempted - and sometimes succeeded - in destroying with his smear campaign was a commmunist, and not anyone who he supposedly "exposed", had engaged in seditious acts against US interests.
The idea that McCarthy was just a misunderstood do-gooder who was unfairly driven from Washington DC is just the type of liberal, reinvention of history that most *real* conservatives abhor.
As for Guckert, you might as well face the fact that he outed himself. He posted *public* messages where *anyone* who cared to look could find them. That is hardly the behavior of a closeted gay. The fact that liberal bloggers attacked him they way they did is probably more of a reflection of the type of reporting (cough!) that Drudge/O'Reilly/Limbaugh engage in. The bloggers actions are/were tawdry and stupid, but Republicans have proven themselves to be good teachers.
Perhaps *too* good.
Republican=Democrat without guilt
Posted by: bodybagger at March 23, 2005 05:32 PM (cjCfM)
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Apparently bodybagger hasn't heard of the Venona Project.
Posted by: Brian B at March 23, 2005 06:04 PM (CouWh)
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"Apparently bodybagger hasn't heard of the Venona Project."
Wow! You mean the Soviet's had *spies* in the US?
Here's a freebie: Klaus Fuchs lived for a short time about thirty miles from where I am living now.
Actually I have heard of Venona, but I knew about Soviet spying earlier than 1995 because it was common knowledge that Fuchs had penetrated the Manhattan Project. If you care to visit the museum where the Manhattan Project is covered in depth, let me know and I will give you directions.
But Venona Project was not McCarthy had in his brief case. The Venona Project didn't become public until *after* McCarthy was dead. Are you claiming that Joe knew about the details exposed in Venona?
I guess his claims will be treated will be treated with the same interest as Nostradamus now, eh?
Posted by: bodybagger at March 23, 2005 06:15 PM (cjCfM)
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"Since when has defending 5,000 years of Judao-Christian tradition been some sort of new thing or opening salvo?"
Ok, so you've been defending poligamy all that time too? Because that's portrayed as A-OK in the Old Testament. I love the selective verse plucking you ignorant bigots do to further your agenda. There is no God, Jesus was mortal, and gay people are here to stay. The "Judao-Christian Tradition" is a bunch of mythology. Your religion is childish. Mind your own business for a minute and your might realize what a fool you really are.
Posted by: chadwig at March 23, 2005 06:26 PM (HmWLC)
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Are you claiming that Joe knew about the details exposed in Venona?
No, but I am saying that the information Venona has exposed definitely vindicates him. If anything, he UNDER-estimated the number of spies in the US government.
I guess his claims will be treated will be treated with the same interest as Nostradamus now, eh?
Hey, congratulations at beating the stuffing out of that straw man there!
Posted by: Brian B at March 23, 2005 08:07 PM (CouWh)
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Ok, so you've been defending poligamy all that time too? Because that's portrayed as A-OK in the Old Testament.
Um, no. It's portrayed, because it happened. But if you'll read through all of the stories in the OT that portray it, you'll notice they also unflinchingly portray the problems that arise because of it. It's a common misperception that just because the Bible records some behavior, it condones it.
I love the selective verse plucking you ignorant bigots do to further your agenda.
You mean like selectively plucking references to polygamy? Pot/Kettle.
There is no God,
A belief that requires as much faith as does the opposite.
Jesus was mortal,
ibid.
and gay people are here to stay.
Ummm.... where exactly did Rusty ever dispute or bemoan this fact? Again, the Left is expert at tearing apart straw men based on what they THINK we conservatives believe, but have a hard time actually listening to what we REALLY said.
The "Judao-Christian Tradition" is a bunch of mythology. Your religion is childish.
Tolerance in action, folks. Give him a hand!
Mind your own business for a minute
Ummm... we're not the ones outing people... drop the stone while your in the glass house.
and your might realize what a fool you really are.
....he said without irony.
Posted by: Brian B at March 23, 2005 08:14 PM (CouWh)
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"No, but I am saying that the information Venona has exposed definitely vindicates him."
Another pointless appeal to authority.
Care to elaborate?
"If anything, he UNDER-estimated the number of spies in the US government."
So Joe didn't destroy enough people, eh?
>>I guess his claims will be treated will be
>>treated with the same interest as Nostradamus
>>now, eh?
"Hey, congratulations at beating the stuffing out of that straw man there!"
You obviously have difficulty distingushing sarcasm from a strawman.
Posted by: bodybagger at March 23, 2005 09:25 PM (cjCfM)
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I'm pro-life, fiscally conservative, and gay. I fully support outing people that are hostile to gay marriage. If you will notice I didn't say gay rights, but gay marriage. Non-discrimination laws are worthless and can't be inforced so the only real fix for gay folks is marriage rights. I used to be the self-hating type up until just a few months ago. Hell, I didn't even support gay marriage. But anyway, if a person is using anti-gay sentiment for any type of gain and is gay, it isn't that they should be outed, it's they need to be outed.
Posted by: Branden123 at March 26, 2005 03:34 AM (uNcYS)
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Branden123: No hate here. Just don't agree with this gay marriage think. Am I any more wrong than you for believing the way I do. Less face it. It's weird. Men marring men Yuk!. Not the way nature intended. To me being gay is like any other sickness/disease/whatever. Accept it and live with it, but don't push it. I don't want to hear about it and don't wish to have it around me. Sorry, and good luck. Self control????
Posted by: greyrooster at March 26, 2005 07:52 PM (CBNGy)
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just to clarify, senator joseph mccarthy was gay, and his aides roy cohn and david schine were also gay. Mccarthy was censored by the Senate after his tactics finally caught up with him. McCarthy was not attempting to do something noble. He had no real credentials as a Senator, so he decided to find suspected communists, sexual deviants, and other misfits in the government to criticize. Sounds like James Dobson and Jerry Falwell going after Spongebob and Purple Teletubbys. I can understand gays who are libertarian, but its hard to understand gay conservatives. Lauch Faircloth and Don Nickles have called homosexuality deviant behavior. Who was their campaign director? Arthur Finkelstein; a gay man who recently married his lover of many years in Massachusetts in the presence of their adopted kids. Who allowed for gays to adopt? Not Faircloth or Nickles.
Posted by: homohypocrisy at April 18, 2005 04:39 PM (/oZEg)
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just to clarify, senator joseph mccarthy was gay, and his aides roy cohn and david schine were also gay. Mccarthy was censored by the Senate after his tactics finally caught up with him. McCarthy was not attempting to do something noble. He had no real credentials as a Senator, so he decided to find suspected communists, sexual deviants, and other misfits in the government to criticize. Sounds like James Dobson and Jerry Falwell going after Spongebob and Purple Teletubbies. I can understand gays who are libertarian, but its hard to understand gay conservatives. Lauch Faircloth and Don Nickles have called homosexuality deviant behavior. Who was their campaign director? Arthur Finkelstein; a gay man who recently married his lover of many years in Massachusetts in the presence of their adopted kids. Who allowed for gays to adopt? Not Faircloth or Nickles.
Posted by: homohypocrisy at April 18, 2005 04:39 PM (/oZEg)
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Shearn Moody, he's a good old boy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...Herb Smokler relates a story Shearn Moody told him about Roy. Moody, who is reported to have blown an inherited fortune of tens of millions, kived on a 600-acre ranch near Galveston, Texas, which Newsweek described as "part fortress, part sybaritic playground...the estate was protected by German Shepherd dogs, electronically controlled gates and bullet-proof windows...Moody installed a metal slide so he could plunge directly into his swimming pool from his second-story bedroom suite; when he invited guests over, says former aide James Wohlenhaus, 'there would be bands playing music and three or four stages scattered around the grounds on which players acted out sex acts. There was something for everybody.'"
Smokler said, "Roy was down at the ranch and wanted one of the many boys of the night that Moody would readily provide his guests who so desired. The story was that Roy had seen this person with warts on his anus and had said, 'Well, I don't care.'" In due course Smokler, who is a physician, said, "Roy had a case of venereal warts on his anus...He had been treated with podophyllin, and it's very irritating and it's quite uncomfrtable." Not long after Roy's encounter with the boy, Smokler found himself in the back of Moody's limousine going back from the airport in Houston to the ranch in Galveston. Sitting in the back seat wwas a Nixon, Mudge, Rose partner, Art Mann- and this was back when Nixon was President. Art Mann, Moody and me in the back and in the front was Cohn and he was having a very involuted legal conversation, but if you looked at him carefully leaning over the back seat, his pants and underpants were down to his knees and his anus was attached to the aperture of the air conditioner...well, it's absolutely true. I was there."... from Citizen Cohn[i/i], by Nicholas Von Hoffman, Doubleday New York 1988, p.364
Posted by: Robert D. Reed at May 17, 2005 11:19 AM (wckdF)
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Moody Ranch......Looking for James Stoker. a good friend. Please Help...Thank You LG
Posted by: LJG at June 13, 2005 06:43 PM (ywZa8)
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Judge To Let Schiavo Die, Orders Stephen Hawking Feeding Stopped

Tampa, Fla (Jawa News Service): A federal judge on Tuesday refused to order the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, denying an emergency request from the brain-damaged woman's parents that had been debated in Congress and backed by the White House.
He also ordered caregivers of Stephen Hawking to stop feeding the 63 year old nobel prize winning physicist.
U.S. District Judge James Whittemore said the 41-year-old woman's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, had not established a "substantial likelihood of success'' at trial on the merits of their arguments. He also noted that since Stephen Hawking appeared to be in "pretty bad shape, we better err on the side of caution and stop feeding him too."
Whittemore wrote that Schiavo's "life and liberty interests'' had been protected by Florida courts. Despite "these difficult and time strained circumstances,'' he wrote, "this court is constrained to apply the law to the issues before it.''
"And by 'law'," he added, "I mean the disregard of this court for the express will of the legislature which wrote the law, substituting my own judgement for their's."
The Florida legislature had attempted to clarify the law in Florida so that in cases where a person in a vegetative state had not left clear instructions as to whether to continue life supporting activities, that the presumption would be in favor of life. The Florida Supreme Court declared that law unconstitutional.
Rex Sparklin, an attorney representing Terri Schiavo's parents, said lawyers were immediately appealing to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta to "save Terri's life.'' That court was already considering an appeal on whether Terri Schiavo's right to due process had been violated.
Lawyers for Hawking also plan to join the suit.
Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida, praised the ruling: "What this judge did is protect the freedom of people to make their own end-of-life decisions without the intrusion of politicians. Terri Schiavo and Stephen Hawking would have wanted it this way.''
Bobby Schindler, Terri Schiavo's brother, said his family was crushed. "To have to see my parents go through this is absolutely barbaric,'' he told ABC's "Good Morning America'' on Tuesday. "I'd love for these judges to sit in a room and see this happening as well.''
But Scott Schiavo, brother of Terri's husband, Michael, called the judge's decision "a good thing,'' and said he did not believe Congress should have intervened.
"Plus," he added, "that computer voice thingy of Hawkings is just freaky. Not natural, like."
"There's not a law that's made for this,'' Scott Schiavo told The AP in a telephone interview. "This is something that goes on 100 times a day in our country, that people, their wish to die with dignity is not a federal issue. And if they refuse to die with dignity, we'll just help them along some.''
Attempts to reach Bob Schindler were unsucessful early Tuesday. George Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo, hung up twice when reached by reporters from The Associated Press. Hawking's people were equally short with reporters, one of them telling the AP to, "go bugger off."
Whittemore's decision comes after feverish action by President Bush and Congress on legislation allowing the brain-damaged woman's contentious case and the ALS afflicted (also known as Lou Gehrig's disease) physicist's to be reviewed by federal courts.
The tube was disconnected Friday on the orders of a state judge, prompting an extraordinary weekend effort by congressional Republicans to push through unprecedented emergency legislation Monday aimed at keeping her alive.
Gov. Jeb Bush was described by a spokeswoman as "extremely disappointed and saddened'' over the judge's decision not to order the tube reconnected. "Gov. Bush will continue to do what he legally can within his powers to protect Terri Schiavo and Stephen Hawking, both vulnerable persons,'' said the spokeswoman, Alia Faraj.
Terri Schiavo did not have a living will. Her husband has fought in courts for years to have the tube removed because he said she would not want to be kept alive artificially and she has no hope for recovery. Her parents contend she responds to them and her condition could improve.
Stephen Hawking has lived with ALS his whole life, and first noticed its affects on his Oxford rowing team. The disease slowly ate away at his motor functions.
Doctors, hired by the ACLU for this case, note that Hawking's latest attack on string theory, published in the journal Nature, was, "nothing more than a reaction to light and sound and only mimicked higher motor functions."
David Gibbs III, the parents' attorney, argued at a Monday hearing in front of Whittemore that forcing Terri Schiavo to starve would be "a mortal sin'' under her Roman Catholic beliefs and urged quick action: "Terri may die as I speak.''
Hawking's, an agnostic, is said to believe that the right to life is the fundamental basis of democracies and that no man can sit in judgement of anothers inherent human worth. He noted that without the help of a specially designed computer that he might also appear to be braind dead.
Hawking communicates through eye movement alone.
But George Felos, an attorney for Michael Schiavo, argued that keeping the woman alive also violated her rights and noted that the case has been aired thoroughly in state courts. "Hawkings," he added, "was just thrown in for safety's sake."
"Yes, life is sacred,'' Felos said, contending that restarting artificial feedings would be against Schiavo's wishes. "So is liberty, particularly in this country. And if it's not in England, it should be.''
Hawkings is a British citizen who has often complained that his computerized voice system makes him sound American.
Michael Schiavo said he was outraged that lawmakers and the president intervened in a private matter. "When Terri's wishes are carried out, it will be her wish. She will be at peace. She will be with the Lord,'' he said on CNN's "Larry King Live'' late Monday.
When King asked Michael Schiavo if dying really was Terri's wish, he answered, "We didn't know what Terri wanted, but this is what we want...."
Terri Schiavo suffered brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped briefly because of a possible potassium imbalance brought on by an eating disorder. She can breathe on her own, but has relied on the feeding tube to keep her alive.
Stephen Hawking was born in 1942 and first noticed symptons of ALS when he was 20. At 21 doctors diagnosed him with multiple sclerosis. Later he learned the diagnosis was incorrect. Since 1974 he has been unable to feed himself, and has been assisted by his wife Jane. Since 1985 he has been under full time medical supervision.
Court-appointed doctors say Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state with no hope of recovery, while her parents insist she could recover with treatment. Doctors have said Schiavo could survive one to two weeks without the feeding tube.
Hawking is expected to expire in a much shorter time.
According to a CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll of 909 adults taken over the weekend, nearly six in 10 people said they think the feeding tube should be removed and felt they would want to remove it for a child or spouse in the same condition.
In another poll, nearly one in three agreed with the statement that 'the holocaust has been blown way out of proportion.'
The poll was taken before the judge added Professor Hawking to the list of those that will be euthenized.
On Tuesday, reaction to the judge's decision from the handful of protesters outside the woman's hospice came quickly. "It's terrible. They're going to talk and talk and she's going to die,'' said Miriam Zlotolow, 59, of Venice, Calif.
Larry Flynt, of Hustler publishing fame, is said to be holed up in his Malibu home and is said to be looking for a non-extradition country for immediate emmigration.
UPDATE: It looks like we both forgot our lithium on the same day.
UPDATE II: Dan is on the same wavelength:
A conservative judge in Orange County, California has come under fire for ordering the removal of at least three feeding tubes sustaining the live's of a small group of anti-war protestors in Southern California.
The therapist, too:
Florida officials are setting up a makeshift "tent city" in Pinellas County, Florida, in anticipation that recent court rulings may provide a spike in euthanasia requests.
"We've received many letters from distraught husbands with ‘vegetatively constrained’ wives. We'd just like to be prepared for the boom."
(both via
Cranky Neocon)
UPDATE III: Via Bill at INDC my thoughts summed up exactly by Dale Franks suggests:Do us all a favor. The next time you go to the doctor, put in a DNR/No Heroic Measures order. Save us all a bunch of trouble if you get a nasty bump on the head, would you?Allah provides us with this link: "Click, register, and download your very own state-specific living will and/or health-care proxy. Follow the instructions on the forms closely, as you'll probably be required to sign in front of two witnesses or a notary."
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1
Finally getting rid of that British tart... I never liked him since he was such a smart ass to Lisa Simpson. Oh wait, "The Simpsons" isn't real, it's make-believe... well anyway, damn activist judges!
Posted by: Wine-aholic at March 22, 2005 09:38 AM (Wsn+K)
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"According to a CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll of 909 adults taken over the weekend, nearly six in 10 people said they think the feeding tube should be removed and felt they would want to remove it for a child or spouse in the same condition.
In another poll, nearly one in three agreed with the statement that 'the holocaust has been blown way out of proportion.'"
Of course, that would mean that a majority of Americans believe the Holocaust hasn't been blown out of proportion. Wouldn't THAT be expected?
And, in another recent poll, a majority of Americans also voted for George W. Bush.
So, is your point that polls are useless, or that Americans don't really have the wherewithall to make an informed choice? I know the mention of the polls was a minor part of your post, but if this is in fact a democracy, well...
Posted by: Venom at March 22, 2005 10:17 AM (dbxVM)
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I'm having a hard time looking up Terri's best-selling book on Amazon: "A Brief History of Being Unable To Feed, Clean, Speak, Think, Or Take Care Of Myself"
Posted by: Laurence Simon at March 22, 2005 10:38 AM (uBCxH)
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Just that polls are meaningless when it comes to moral questions.
Laurence, how do you know she is unable to think? My nine month old son cannot 'think' in the same way I can, yet he is a full human being will all the rights and priveleges that accrue to the living.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at March 22, 2005 10:40 AM (JQjhA)
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And her thinking capabilities are irrelevant, anyway. She should be fed because she still retains her human dignity, just like someone who may have been born this way. 'Nough said.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at March 22, 2005 11:30 AM (x+5JB)
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I agree, YBP.
That's why I advocate keeping Barbara hydrated and fed despite her persistant vegitative state.
It's just the right thing to do.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at March 22, 2005 11:44 AM (C5gjM)
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Barbara Boxer, that is.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at March 22, 2005 11:46 AM (C5gjM)
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I haven't seen Max Cleland around lately, come to think of it.
Posted by: Liberal Larry at March 22, 2005 11:47 AM (7ldvV)
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I was privileged to see and listen to a speech on quantum physics given by Stephen Hawking at SMU, several years ago. Your juxtaposition of Terry Schiavo/Professor Hawking is brilliant! I just loved reading it. Maybe a federal judge can play God, but I think he should be more worried about telling people to disregard the man behind the curtain. Thank ye verily, O Great One.
Posted by: ZiPpo at March 22, 2005 01:15 PM (P7XXv)
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You are welcome.
Oh, you meant Rusty.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at March 22, 2005 01:40 PM (x+5JB)
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Hey, is that a young Larry Flint in the wheelchair?
Posted by: GCL at March 22, 2005 02:15 PM (Q4h45)
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I saw Prof. Hawking speak once at a small gathering in a Washington DC hotel a few years back. However, he had been running a bit late to start, and some airhead hotel employee tried to explain how Dr. Hawkings [sic] would be down shortly blah blah blah, and asked us to, "give Dr. Hawkings a warm round of applause as he
walks in (emphasis added)." I nearly crapped myself, proclaiming to those around me that id Hawking were to walk in, I would slip him some tongue.
Posted by: Wine-aholic at March 22, 2005 02:23 PM (Wsn+K)
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Remember that time George Bush waved at Stephen Hawking? Hahahaha...what an idiot!
Posted by: Liberal Larry at March 22, 2005 02:42 PM (7ldvV)
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Remember that time George Bush signed into law in Texas a law that allowed doctors to pull the plug on people who could not pay for treatment? Yeah the hypocracy is soooo funny. TS is a prop, literally and figuratively.
Your 9 year old has potential, TS does not.
Posted by: Max at March 22, 2005 04:47 PM (HFKAk)
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Time for Terri Schiavo to die.
Her husband says she didn't want to be kept alive.
3 of her friends say she didn't ever want to end up like this.
The Schindlers only becamse interested in this after a $1,000,000 award to Michael Schiavo for malpractice, and wanted that money.
The Schindlers are either in the deepest denial ever, or they are patent liars. She does _not_ respond according to the court appointed guardian, those who view the entire tape lengths of the cheesey videos online.
The Schindlers are being controlled by activists and encouraged to keep up the fight.
Terri's brain has been scanned, she has received ridiculous amounts of rehab, including experimental stuff, and nothing, nothing will bring her back.
She is dead. Luckily, she is not suffering because she has no brain to process pain and understand it. But her wishes are being denied to her because her parents are insane with grief and denial.
Pull the plug. Let it end. Stop the hyperbole. The people chanting and praying are total morons. The experts have spoken, except for for-sale experts owned by extremist activist groups who would deny abortions even in extreme cases, which is something 90% of the nation does not support.
And guess what? I voted for Bush, and I'm a card-carrying Republican. I am against abortion in most cases, and against all federal funding for abortion.
But this stuff is over-the-top. The Federal Court doesn't even have constitutional jurisdiction. The Appeals Court will deny the request as well, since no interstate commerce is involved and no interstate crime has been committed. No national security interest is here. The White House and Congress are just grandstanding.
I'm disgusted. I support the social security reforum, the Iraq War, and so many other things they do, but the Bush Administration and Republicans keep doing these embarassing things that smack of the uninformed values of the Clampets sitting around their cement pond. Blech!
The Republicans are destroying their moderate base in an attempt to pander to the far right in a way that they know will play out with them unsuccessful but looking like noble victims. Politicians stink.
Posted by: 24 at March 22, 2005 04:47 PM (TFSHk)
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Who the fuck are we to decide who's fit to live? Sean Hannity interviewed a woman who was in a PVS and her husband did not give up on her! She came out of it! How do we know that Terri's mind isn't trapped inside her body, therefore rendering her unable to MAKE communication?
Schiavo's doctors say there's no hope; Shindlers' doctors say they can rehabilitate her...who the hell's telling the truth here? Why has this gone on for so many years?
Schiavo's moved on, fathered two kids with a girlfriend, why doesn't he just sign Terri over to her parents and wash his hands of it? Without anything in writing, as Bush says, "we must err on the side of life".
Are people who are oxygen dependent, on pacemakers and dialysis machines going to be discarded too?
Had Terri's husband and parents agreed on what they wanted for Terri, none of this would even be in the public eye.
I don't know what Schiavo stands to gain from all this by being so adamant about letting her go...after all, he isn't exactly the loving husband, having two kids by a woman obviously means he has moved on....and a nurse who cared for Terri for a few yrs. said she overheard Schiavo mutter, "WHEN IS THAT BITCH GOING TO DIE?"
Friends and coworkers have stated they saw Terri with bruises; another coworker said she and Terri were making plans to get an apt. together, so the marriage was on the rocks before this happened.
Something's fishy in Denmark. Should Terri ever get rehab and recover, she may say how Schiavo tried to kill her.
Maybe he wants her silenced.
Posted by: Laura at March 22, 2005 05:05 PM (L3PPO)
17
Geez, tried "some experimental" stuff and that didn't work. 24 is fed up and it's time to just kill her. Lets let her lay in bed without food or water until she just expires. Can't piss off the middle ground or those god damned liberal who think this is some kind of payback for religious hypocrisy.
Don't let the facts stop the killing. Facts like her two loving parents do not want money, they just want to care for their daughter because they love her.
Facts like there is no livig will, just kill her on the word of a husband who has fathered two children and taken up with another woman.
24? What are you , some kind of secret agent? Shit, get off your ass, it's 4pm and your mom needs to vacume your room.
Posted by: brad at March 22, 2005 05:46 PM (NzgK/)
18
Hmmmmmm, let's see now, pull the plug on ANYONE on a feeding tube. Even a Nobel Prize winner who still lectures???What's next, everyone with dentures or contacts. After all what good are you if you can't see or eat without an aid. I can see the judge has given this a lot of thought by including Stephen Hawking, Or does he have a brain impediment?
Posted by: linda at March 22, 2005 06:43 PM (QpMZU)
19
I understand Michael Schaivo wants to carry out his wife's wishes, but I feel for her parents. I don't know what kind of a relationship Terri had with them but assuming it was a good one I would probably transfer the rights to them were I in Michael's shoes. They've been profoundly affected by this since 1990, and I think if they really want to try and rehabilitate Terri then why not.
As for the facts about this case, they remain. She is in a vegetative state. She has been for 15 years now and no amount of rehab in the world will bring her back. Do miracles happen? They do. But if Terri was actually to start talking as a result of speech therapy available today then it would be the single most incredible miracle that has ever happened. The term "brain-dead" I find to be rather crude but it does in fact describe the state which Terri is in.
I would love nothing more than to see Terri show signs of progression, any sign of regained function but the truth is it will never happen. Terri's only hope is to remain alive long enough for some fantastic, new technology to be able to help her. And even that is a shot in the dark.
Let's get some other facts straight. Removal of a feeding tube is a method that has been used time and time again, often requested by the patient who is well enough to talk but may not be able to do anything else. Is it cruel? In principle I think so. But it is NOT painful like so many idiots keep saying. It is actually the least painful way to go, and that's why it is chosen. Terri is in a sleep/wake cycle. She will slowly become weaker, and once she will go to sleep, and will not awaken. She will have no awareness of this. That's all there is to it.
As for Congress intervening, let me make this REALLY simple. When Terri's parents could not convince Michael to allow them to keep her alive, they needed another recourse. That recourse was the state of Florida and its court. That court, having considered all the evidence, ruled against Terri's parents. Now, there is this thing called the 10th amendment. I'm sure you're familiar with it. It prohibits Congress from doing exactly what they did when they passed the bill to take this to Federal court.
So every time this situation comes up Congress is going to ignore the 10th amendment and whip up an intervention? And then of course everyone who supported the bill is "disappointed" by the ruling believing it was not the "right" one. HELLO?? This is the point of the courts. Two sides present an argument, and a judge or a jury decides which is factually more correct. This has been done, twice now. If Congress is going to keep up with this why don't they just say "state courts are deemed to be stupid and incorrect most of the time so we will take any situation like Terri's to federal court." Stick that in the constitution somewhere. Otherwise, stay out of it.
As for Terri's representation, doctors were sent to examine her over weeks to test different types of therapy and make a conclusion about her condition. Their conclusion was that she is, indeed, in a vegetative state.
There's little left to argue. If you want Terri to live just because you don't want to see any human, no matter how incapacitated, starve to death, that's one thing. I actually agree with you. But I'm tired of reading the ignorant b.s that comes from people's mouths, people who clearly have no clue what they're talking about. Representation? She had it. Due process? She had it. Legal recourse? It was taken. Congress intervening? Should not have happened.
As for Michael, I've always wondered about his intentions. I heard of someone in Florida offering the man a million dollars to transfer legal gaurdianship to her parents, and he refused. But accepting the offer would have made him look really bad, so I'm not sure we can conclude anything. If I was him I would let her parents take care of her, but i do not think he is lying. Contrary to popular belief, he is NOT the only person who testified to Terri's wishes. Giving her to her parents would be going against those wishes, but I personally would feel better knowing that the people who brought her into this world still have her.
Very sad, especially when you see pictures of her from her earlier years, she looks like a vibrant person and is beautiful. I hope this teaches everyone to write up a living will.
Posted by: Igor Kazakov at March 22, 2005 07:11 PM (xM3Dg)
20
"He also ordered caregivers of Stephen Hawking to stop feeding the 63 year old nobel prize winning physicist."
Looks can be deceiving.
Posted by: actus at March 22, 2005 10:17 PM (5Lqt9)
21
Brilliant as always, Rusty!
Keep up the good work.
Posted by: David at March 22, 2005 11:25 PM (aOdhJ)
22
Just saw interesting interview on TV "Hannity & Combs" w/a nurse
who cared for Terri a year and a half. She reported that Michael Schiavo was a bossy brute to the staff, ordering them to follow his orders, not those of the doctors. In addition, he supposedly asked on a few occasions, "when was the bitch expected to die" and wasn't there any way to speed up the process.
Apparently the woman reported this to her supervisor and others, filed a police report and was questioned. Then she was promptly fired. She states that there are also two other sworn affidavits given by other caretakers of Terri.
She and others maintain that Terri did try to talk on a regular basis, could say things like "pain" and "Mommy, help me" and would laugh at jokes. Also that she was very distressed after any visits from her "husband" who insisted on shutting the door during the duration.
This woman sounded very credible. The whole case -- the acceptance of "hearsay" (given by Michael & a few others re Terri's wishes) by the Florida court, the acceptance of Schiavo as the husband who also seems to be the common law husband of another woman, the suspicions of the family regarding all the broken bones that showed up on Terri's tests and the circumstances following her initial collapse -- reeks. As for Mr. Schiavo, something in his manner and "flat" responses reminds me of Scott Peterson.
Posted by: RJ at March 23, 2005 12:57 AM (V1j8U)
23
RJ my point exactly! There's more to this than we know and the husband is adamant, almost too adamant, to carry out "Terri's wishes"...with nothing in writing, how can they go on what HE says? Shouldn't the benefit of the doubt be given and just let the parents take over? What's the big deal?
Coworkers were interviewed, as I said before, and Terri showed up at work with bruises....another coworker said she was going to split from Schiavo, and get an apartment with the coworker.
Schiavo refused an MRI for Terri...is he afraid that she may get better and rat him out?
While we argue the case, poor Terri is slowly dying of starvation.
Posted by: Laura at March 23, 2005 09:06 AM (L3PPO)
24
Actually, there's a pretty big difference between Stephen Hawking and Terri Shiavo - Hawking is without any element of doubt still able to think and communicate through his specially-designed computer. Schiavo has been unable to communicate by pretty much every expert out there who has examined her, and it's pretty much agreed upon that she's not a thinking human being anymore. Will she get better down the road? Who knows. But she's not in the same situation Hawking is in.
And, for those that are going to try and moralise me, that doesn't mean I think her plug ought to be pulled. It just means that this kind of comparison is pretty weak.
Posted by: Venom at March 23, 2005 09:23 AM (dbxVM)
25
"If Jesus were alive today, Karl Rove would kill him"
http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/7/2005/1096
Posted by: greg at March 23, 2005 11:46 AM (/+dAV)
26
Ok just found out something. Michael Schiavo did not EVER mention it was Terri's wishes NOT to be kept alive artificially until SEVEN "YEARS into this dilemma. Once he exhausted all possible means of finding out if Terri would recover, he suddenly started going around saying it was her wish not to be kept alive under those circumstances.
This is bad blood bet. him and Terri's parents. Why this has gone on for 15 years is beyond me. Why can't Schiavo wash his hands of this and let her parents care for her as they've wanted to all along? What's the harm? Why is he so adamant? I don't believe Terri told him this.
What person do YOU know would have even discussed this at 27 yrs. of age? I never did, unless you were in a situation where you had a family member have this happen to, would you even bring up the issue at that age. Most healthy, young people don't discuss this. As you age, you certainly would talk about it and make your wishes known. I don't believe him for a minute.
Another thing that bothers me is the fact that Bush allows people in TX who are without insurance have the plugs removed on them, why is he suddenly "erring on the side of life"? What would he politically gain from becoming involved? I don't get it!
Terri is now the new poster child for "right to life"...it's about abortion all over again.
Sadly, I don't think the Supreme Court's going to touch this, because if they deem Fla. incapable of making decision, every state will be disqualified from making these decisions, and there will be medical chaos in this nation. Every malpractice suit would have to go before the Supreme Court should they side with Terri to remain alive.
What a mess.
Posted by: Laura at March 23, 2005 12:27 PM (L3PPO)
27
Seems to me you wrote this in your own formula, Rusty, not quite the truth because there are things people would say and people would not say and I don't believe the judge said some of the things that you had coming out of his mouth.
What a shame you don't understand and that not all the truth has been told.
Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at March 23, 2005 02:18 PM (PEKrh)
28
For your information, while he was governor of Texas, George W. Bush signed the Advanced Directives Act in 1999, which gives hospitals the right to remove life support in cases where there is no possibility of revival, when the family cannot pay, no matter what the family's wishes are in the matter.
Posted by: greg at March 23, 2005 02:28 PM (/+dAV)
29
Therefore Greg, you asshole, Terri must be killed.
Fuck you !!
Posted by: Brad at March 23, 2005 02:44 PM (NzgK/)
Posted by: greg at March 23, 2005 02:47 PM (/+dAV)
31
"For your information, while he was governor of Texas, George W. Bush signed the Advanced Directives Act in 1999, which gives hospitals the right to remove life support in cases where there is no possibility of revival, when the family cannot pay, no matter what the family's wishes are in the matter."
This just shows another example of Bush siding with those with money. If you''re poor he could give a shit about you just as he doesn't give a shit about the troops.
Posted by: greg at March 23, 2005 02:54 PM (/+dAV)
32
I think most of America has no clue, no idea, of what it's like to be in this position. I also don't think anyone has ever walked into a room of a person who is brain dead - ie vegetative state. At the age of 27, the last thing Terri would be thinking of, is a living will, so she'd she something on tv or out on a walk and chatting with her husband, she'd tell him how she felt about living in such a situation. At the time, living wills and donor cards were just starting. So the only person who would know what she felt and what she wanted would have been her best friend, lover and that man would be her husband.
There are thousands of cases like this throughout the country and we don't hear about them because they didn't have parents who splashed it all over the front pages and now all over the friggin internet. They won't even show you pictures of what she looks like today so all I can tell you is to think of Karen Ann Quinlin.
Yes, her brain stem still functions. The only thing the brain stem does is breathing, body temperature and blood pressure. Just because that grape sized thing at the base of the neck still functions, does not mean she does. She is brain dead and probably noticibly seen over the the last of the 15 years she has been in a vegetative state.
You can thank Medical Science for this conundrum. I was 24 years old when I had to make the decision for my husband to be unplugged. At one point, even Terri was in that condition. Again, over the past year, I had to push that decision through on my father because I knew this was not what he wanted. He did have a Living Will but you also need a DNR - a do not resuscitate order. And if you've been resuscitated, you have immediate shut down. Even with a living will, they will monitor your brain activity for three days before they will again, shut you down.
They are also not telling you the complete story. She is not being starved to death and without fluids- even though that is the case. She is heavily sedated just in case - one of the benefits of being in a hospice. Back when I did my thesis on eutanasia for college (in my mid thirties), I learned even more than I had after I was 24. (That situation caused me to go out and get a living will and a DNR).
You would be amazed at the lengths some people have gone through to die - and most of them without dignity. Many were not brain dead but their brain stems were dead or almost dead. Perfect example: ALS
There was a woman who actually had herself removed from her hopital bed, brought to a motel, so she could starve herself away. Starvation is incredibly painful. Although they have not said it and would probably deny it, Terri is heavily sedated. No one is that cruel and I'm sure her hospice is seeing to her care. Trust me, they didn't close the door and walk away; she is indeed being cared for. I doubt she feels anything but they'll do it anyway for the sake of the families and that of Terri.
Now if she were not in the news CONSTANTLY and was not in the news over the past years because of her parents, her husband could bring her home and arranged for her to have a shot - not unlike those they get on death row and her ending would have been quick and over in ten minutes. But too much notice about this situation has been given, so they did not have the option. All that's left is the option to starve and remove fluids but let me tell you from studying, from example, from knowledge, she is not suffering even if she could feel suffering. So instead they make this really big deal about her starving to death - not even having water without telling you the entire truth. For some one who has been in this state for 15 years and over the last 7, completely brain mush, is indignanty for her and for her family.
Her family has to move on now; they need to let go of their daughter and let go and start living for themselves right now. They have put off their lives for over 15 years and if anything was going to happen, it would have happened by now. So what they need to do is get along with her husband, plan her final body goodbyes and then focus on living their lives without Terri.
If they hadn't made such a big deal over it, they could have quietly let her die by the lethal shot which really lasts at most 5 minutes and no one would even know the difference. She doesn't know the difference now and she never will.
It's time for this country to move on - this stuff if happening every day. She's not in a coma, but in a constant vegetative state from being brain dead. It's way past time to say goodbye. And her family and spokespeople are going to make it worse than it really is. There is just so much you do not know.
This can be reproduced anywhere.
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at March 24, 2005 03:56 AM (PEKrh)
33
GREG: My question is if there is no possibility of revival, then where did Bush err? Would you like to pay the bill? I wouldn't. Rather have my money going to the living or to those with a possibility of revival. I think what the bill really says is this. If you have the money and wish to throw it away on a dead horse, you may. But you don't have the right to throw other peoples money away while whipping a dead horse. Why is Bush evil for this correct act?
What would you have done in his situation? I would have done the same. Everything comes down to money and time. My rule is don't waste either.
Getting your politics mixed in with common sense?
Posted by: greyrooster at March 25, 2005 07:47 AM (CBNGy)
34
Gee whiz Greg. Bush isn't a Jew.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 25, 2005 07:52 AM (CBNGy)
35
Rooster,
All Mr Schiavo had to do was move to Texas in 1999 and drop his wife from his insurance policy and under Bush's law Terri would have been killed.
Bush isn't a Jew, he worships Satan going way back to his Skull and Bones days.
Posted by: greg at March 25, 2005 11:37 AM (/+dAV)
36
Ha, Ha.
Have a nice day.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 26, 2005 07:28 PM (CBNGy)
37
Greg: Get off the skull & bones. You have no idea.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 26, 2005 07:31 PM (CBNGy)
38
Just a thought. If Terry was my daughter. Would I rather visit her grave or see her as she is? Don't know. Hard to say when I look at my two lovely daughters. Tough question. Not sure I can answer it. What do we do. Blame it on God. How about George Bush? Is it his fault. Sometimes life is a bitch.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 26, 2005 07:37 PM (CBNGy)
39
You are an idiot. ERR ON THE SIDE OF LIFE, get out of IRAQ NOW! That's murder on a much larger scale, PREGENANT WOMEN ARE BEING BOMBED AND SHOT BY AMERICAN SOILDERS. That's MURDER! Get with it you hippocrits. The anti-christ will wrap himself in the name of the lord (like Bush), the anti-christ will commit great contradictions and rationalize them to the people (like Bush), the people who think they are the children of God will actually be following the Beast (like the Christian conservatives). You guys are fools, you'll rot on earth when there's no ozone left and all us empathetic people will be with god, jesus, mohammed, buddha, chrisna, etc. in heaven. SUCKERS!
Posted by: Matt at March 26, 2005 09:56 PM (fftJD)
40
umm, pregnant, soldiers, hypocrits, and Krishna, maybe? moron.
Posted by: Brandon at April 04, 2005 02:32 PM (OSbb3)
41
nice troll, too bad hawking doesn't live in the US.
Posted by: Mr. Logic at April 04, 2005 10:22 PM (wLpfi)
42
This is terrible. My husband also has ALS, and I don't think that I would allow anyone to take his feeding tube away. This means this person must die from hunger. Would the Judge like to die from hunger?
Posted by: Eurika at April 20, 2005 03:04 AM (B1X+P)
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